tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post2156997625988880487..comments2024-02-03T17:53:56.911+00:00Comments on ...the leadpile: Pointless Anthroplogy - HobgoblinsWhiskey Priesthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15956327711660800903noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-78877880988694470822021-11-20T09:51:07.179+00:002021-11-20T09:51:07.179+00:00The peaceful Hobgoblin are lost in time. Like you ...The peaceful Hobgoblin are lost in time. Like you stated above, it originated from folklore which has a sudden brief moment of clarity for me. Honestly, I love Goblins. But I've always my whole life have had a problem with how Tolkien characterized his "Re-invention" of the race, in a sense, taking from sources that go deeper than my mind can. <br /><br />But I'm bias. I love all peaceful "grotesque" creatures. A herb smoking ogre sleeping near a tree. For example. I'd rather not even dive my toes into an RPG narrative that forces me to view a race in a depreciating manner. Especially if that race in particular has a totally other origin. A friendly one. <br /><br />Idk. I just wish not everything has to be about violence to make it work. <br /><br />But I loved this article. Thank you for this super insightful history lesson that covers a whole lot of lore tightly compressed into a little bit of text. HobbyHobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060351288442564271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-25645078375016588062019-06-17T17:51:51.329+01:002019-06-17T17:51:51.329+01:00https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3IuIkdpYiTw/Wxl3fchKV3I...https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3IuIkdpYiTw/Wxl3fchKV3I/AAAAAAAAKl4/rmQtsCSoWswz6gWAmg9xW666UmkGKyb2wCKgBGAs/s1600/20180607_191148.jpg<br /><br />Wow... I had this Citadel miniature back in the day! It may still reside in my pile somewhere... Anyway, great article, I always enjoy your retrospectives on these things.Allison M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08362700513221195102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-90256376495189512422018-07-04T22:40:39.055+01:002018-07-04T22:40:39.055+01:00Interesting and informative article. Always liked ...Interesting and informative article. Always liked the Hobgoblins just because of their Turkish/Mongol feel.Wild Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10495670833356760174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-36092095305956671982018-06-10T18:04:16.958+01:002018-06-10T18:04:16.958+01:00Nice history. My main memory of hobgoblins in WFB ...Nice history. My main memory of hobgoblins in WFB is a single unit allied to an O&G force to stop animosity ;)Maurice Mickelwhitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415253943533672436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-69980141923355889222018-06-10T05:09:27.952+01:002018-06-10T05:09:27.952+01:00Nice article--thanks.Nice article--thanks.(Kym) + Warburton + (Classic40K) https://www.blogger.com/profile/17333928965917754588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-22424901315515618612018-06-10T02:14:04.447+01:002018-06-10T02:14:04.447+01:00This is a nice repository of hobgoblin info. Since...This is a nice repository of hobgoblin info. Since I'm working on a combined force of oriental themed greenskins right now I think I will base it on the times after the fall of the hobgoblin empire and the power vacuum that exists on the steppes. It all fits very nicely :D Hat off to you Whiskeysir!Captain Crookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13731334952415370890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-27853200040448471632018-06-09T14:42:15.482+01:002018-06-09T14:42:15.482+01:00WP WOW what a great article! Well done, well done!...WP WOW what a great article! Well done, well done! I have always been frustrated with them being featured in WHFB3 and the utter lack of figures. And then what is available isn’t all that desirable. Ally’s limited range was okay but small. The Big Hats figures were mediocre at best and the dogs of war figures were embarrassing. I’ve always thought that Jes Goodwin’s Uruk-Hai make the best hobgoblins figures it’s a shame that they were such a limited release and so damn expensive! I’ve got just about enough for a small unit.Warlord Kcamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16320985541088994548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-12276930687850346402018-06-09T12:35:10.934+01:002018-06-09T12:35:10.934+01:00Thanks! I'll have a poke around and see if I c...Thanks! I'll have a poke around and see if I can find a copy. <br /><br />I used to love hobgoblins in WFB 2nd edition, because the frenzy rule made them so formidable. They were a match for orcs in close combat normally, but once they went into frenzy, they doubled their attacks. Third edition tied the frenzy into being Mournguls and having their army standard on the table.<br /><br />I always thought that hobgoblins fitted into the Old World of WHFRP much better than GW's orcs and goblins, which are a bit too comic to work with the darker material in the role-playing game. The hobgoblins, lacking the goofiness (and the greenness, at least in their earlier incarnations), were a much better fit.JChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964744140140515737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-88661650428261472552018-06-09T09:37:08.259+01:002018-06-09T09:37:08.259+01:00The head and torso illustrations are from 'Som...The head and torso illustrations are from 'Something Rotten in Kislev' where a Hobgoblin war band has to be negotiated with when the adventurers are taken into their camp. There is a fair amount of background about Hobgoblins and their way of life. Well worth a punt.Whiskey Priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15956327711660800903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-82377109778328934192018-06-09T09:25:51.983+01:002018-06-09T09:25:51.983+01:00Great stuff!
I'm glad you raised Aly Morrison...Great stuff!<br /><br />I'm glad you raised Aly Morrison's samurai range, as his hobgoblin boxed set was explicitly advertised as opposition for the samurai. I think that context rather undermines the "racism" argument, as the hobgoblins look very similar to Japanese oni (as a kid, I used to bolster my hobgoblin regiments with Dixon's oni and bakemono goblins). Essentially, Citadel produced a range of Asian humans and a range of Asian monsters as adversaries for them. <br /><br />There's also the point that the Morrison hobgoblins just look *incredibly cool* - they're fearsome and stylish, not comic or clownish like the racist propaganda. The racist stereotypes in the US propaganda are *goofy* - but the Citadel hobgoblins are the least goofy of all the Citadel goblinoids. <br /><br />I wouldn't describe the Perry hobgoblins as "scrawny"; they're just as beefy as the C15/16 orcs of the period, and fit in well with them. I've got a few of them here - I reckon they're a fairly fearsome bunch. They have the same three-toed feet as the later Morrison ones and the Fiend Factory goblins.<br /><br />http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=77384.msg1221190#msg1221190<br /><br />One pedantic etymological point: while Tolkien certainly promulgated the idea of a hobgoblin as an especially fearsome goblin, the shift away from the original meaning of a domestic or familiar goblin to a particularly nasty one had already happened. If I recall correctly, this happened in the seventeenth century, hence John Bunyan's "hobgoblin nor foul fiend", which is a much nastier proposition from Shakespeare's "Some hobgoblin call me or sweet Puck/I do their work and they shall have good luck". Certainly, by the early eighteenth century, "hobgoblin" has come to mean a source of fear or dread. The shift may have something to do with the Jacobean obsession with black magic, and, subsequently, harsh Puritan views towards folk beliefs. <br /><br />Tolkien went with the nastier meaning for hobgoblin, but dropped it when he discovered that the original sense was a smaller, less fearsome creature, which is why the term only appears in The Hobbit.<br /><br />I recognise most of the illustrations above from Ravening Hordes and the like, but not the more detailed head-and-torso ones that match the Morrison C36 range. Are those from a WHFRP book? <br /><br />Anyway, I really enjoyed reading this breakdown - and must get on with painting up my Morrison C36s!JChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964744140140515737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-47430083132880774572018-06-09T08:38:07.280+01:002018-06-09T08:38:07.280+01:00I enjoyed reading this as I do anything about Hobg...I enjoyed reading this as I do anything about Hobgoblins. Though I'm not so sure about the loss of the Hobgoblin Empire, it may have lived on a while longer. At least in my Warhammer world its still alive and well. Ghazak Khan and Oglah Khan's wolfboyz are from the Hobgoblin empire and their fluff is post Chaos Dwarves Hobgoblins so the two Hobgoblin types seem to co-exist or at least did for a while. That said, references to the Hobgoblin empire seemed to have disappeared by 7th ed, and a map in Warriors of Chaos book from that time notes the battle "Oglai Khan's Last Charge" which one could infer led to the destruction of the Hobgoblin empire.Orcyboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11162039510007495268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-60566767180762757382018-06-09T06:49:46.689+01:002018-06-09T06:49:46.689+01:00Ah, Fantastic!Ah, Fantastic!Michal DwarfCrypthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915669873652904866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-74592783776939954732018-06-08T22:13:36.215+01:002018-06-08T22:13:36.215+01:00What a fantastic read! The best I could do whilst ...What a fantastic read! The best I could do whilst on isolation duty in my school was to analyse various OD&D dungeon layouts - Friday p.6 is my saviour. <br />Whilst looking for a decent Hobgoblin range for D&D, I settled upon Oathmark Miniatures Goblins for my Hobgoblins. I use LotR Goblins as Goblins. I’m praying that Oathmark will produce a suitably brutal set of Orcs one day.Steve Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02234195401059922518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-66812302057080377222018-06-08T19:55:57.462+01:002018-06-08T19:55:57.462+01:00I thoroughly enjoyed this history, best detention ...I thoroughly enjoyed this history, best detention I ever went to.Phil Curranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06828625218031670912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-49071345361951665692018-06-08T18:26:37.790+01:002018-06-08T18:26:37.790+01:00Bravo mate
Bravo mate<br />bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02024646705534687184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-25122206368651248662018-06-08T15:34:48.051+01:002018-06-08T15:34:48.051+01:00Excellent read!Excellent read!Simon Quinton https://www.blogger.com/profile/18001946192905517180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-2430064908603325732018-06-08T15:34:36.130+01:002018-06-08T15:34:36.130+01:00I quite like the Otherworld ones myself.I quite like the Otherworld ones myself.Simon Quinton https://www.blogger.com/profile/18001946192905517180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3298356674700006690.post-13811665622997168852018-06-08T15:11:47.112+01:002018-06-08T15:11:47.112+01:00Nice thought exercise. My main beef with the Hobgo...Nice thought exercise. My main beef with the Hobgoblins is the lack of figures available. I've looked in many places and none of them have been satisfactory to me to make even a small mercenary force.Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15428727065347379281noreply@blogger.com